On this episode, Anna Brayton, Senior Designer at Amazon, talks about how her passion for design started with markers at a young age. She speaks of her career progression through 10 years designing stores at Starbucks, to the challenges of projects with a blank canvas, and learning through seeking feedback from your colleagues. Anna talks about how design is a lifestyle and having the right tools at hand makes creating so much more fun.

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Jp:

Anna Brayton, thank you for joining us on This is Design School.

Anna:

You’re welcome. Happy to be here.

Jp:

I’m happy to hear from you and to get a little bit of your story. How about if we just start at the beginning? So, how or what got you into design?

Anna:

Yeah. So, longer story than it probably should be. I’ll try to shorten it as much as possible.

I had always been a creative kid and into markers and colors and that’s really all I wanted to do. I didn’t play with a lot of other toys besides like, Legos. And, I would just be super happy with a coloring book and crayons and to set me free and I’d be good.

My mom and dad started a bakery when I was younger and my mom decided that she wanted to stencil on some tables. So, she showed me how to do it. I was about eight years old. She showed me how to do it, all the paints and how the stencils go on and how you do the whole thing. So, I started doing that and it was really fun. Then, she did one and picked out some colors and I hated it so much, I started crying. And, it was…

Jp:

And how old were you at this point?

Anna:

It was eight.

Jp:

Eight years old. Okay.

Anna:

…And, because her colors were horrible and I just hated it, she was like, “Okay, fine.” And, it was water based, so she just wiped it off and was like, I will just let you do all of these tables. And, it was probably a good, I don’t know, 25 tables.

Jp:

Oh my.

Anna:

Yeah. So.

Jp:

Do you remember what the color choice was?

Anna:

I don’t really remember. I feel like she like, stenciled these apples and they were just like, really ugly and I didn’t like it at all. I think that was a point where she realized that I was, A. pretty opinionated, but also had a pretty good eye for stuff. And she was like, “Okay, fine. I will let you do it.” And, kind of ever since then, they were really supportive of me, you know, doing creative things and expressing myself in different ways through dance or arts and crafts or whatever it is.

And one other thing that kinda happened is we started remodeling our house. My little sister was coming along and we only had three bedrooms. There was gonna be six of us and my brothers were getting bigger and they didn’t need to share twin bunk beds anymore. And so, my dad designed and did all of the work and built it. So, I was around that quite a bit as a kid. And then, moving kind of through middle school, I was always kinda into what my room looked like and all this stuff, and across from mom’s bakery was this paint shop that also had wallpaper and carpet and all this stuff. Those people would just let me hang out in there all the time and I’d beg my mom to let me get some ridiculous like, dolphin wallpaper or something. And, she was like, “No, you can’t. You’re not going to like that in five years.” And I’m like, “No, I will. I promise.” And, yeah. I didn’t get dolphin wallpaper. But, I spent a lot of time over there and I realized that I could pick stuff out for my room and do all this cool stuff.

Then, going into high school, I kind of learned what interior design was and learned that it was a profession. We had a class in high school; kinda learned about different styles and room layouts and the work triangle in the kitchen. You learned all of these basics, you know? And, I probably would have kept doing it if they had Interior Design II, or something. But, they just had the one class.

And then, for my senior project in high school, we had to pick something that, you know, we wanted to do, document it and all of these things and write a paper. So, I wanted to decorate a room or, like, redo a room. And so, my parents gave me a budget. I think like, $2–300, not a whole lot. And, they gave me my sister’s room. It had used to be my brother’s room. And, they were like, “We should probably redo this.” And so, I got to work with her a little bit. She was like, seven at the time. That was interesting. I picked out all the colors and bedding and painted shelves and found some drawers and made a tabletop with my dad. We actually like, put the Formica on top, you know? And like, worked with a budget to do all of these things. I documented everything, wrote a paper on it, and that was my senior project. And, by that time, I kind of knew that when I went to college, I wanted to do interior design. So, that’s what I was looking for in schools and…

Jp:

What did you graduate with?

Anna:

So, I went to Washington State and I have an interior design degree. Yeah.

Jp:

And, then from there?

Anna:

From there, I didn’t want to start a career. As we know, probably sitting in this room, design school can be really intense. It’s a lot of hours and I was frankly really, really tired. And I was like, “I don’t want to start a career. I don’t want to start a 9 to 5.” And my dad was really like, “You need to get a job,” and blah, blah, blah. This whole thing, as parents do.

So, I started looking around for other options and I found Washington State and this school in London had an exchange program. I could do an exchange program, but do an internship. So, I’d basically be going to work every day. So, I applied to that. I got in. I moved over there for three months and I basically worked for a small high end residential, and they did a little bit of office work too, small office creative space, really over in London. I worked for them for three months and came back and did some odd jobs; contract work. All that stuff. Trying to find a job in, oh God, what year was it? 2006.

And, I had a friend that started working for Starbucks and she reached out to me, probably in October/November time frame of 2006. She was like, “Hey, our team is expanding. This would be right up your alley. It’s what I’m doing.” And, I’m like, “Great!” So, I applied. Long story short, got the job and started there in 2007. Yeah. So, I started working for Starbucks in their License Design Studio. So, that’s any non-company owned licensed for those that might not know. So, casinos, airports, hotels, college universities, Safeway, Target, all those were in that studio at the time.

Jp:

That sounds pretty fascinating because it’s taking the idea of the Starbucks brand and then putting it into another preexisting environment or preexisting brand, it sounds like.

Anna:

Yeah. It’s really interesting. I really enjoyed that work. So, I was at Starbucks for 10 and a half years and I just left last August. Now, I’m at Amazon. But, my time at Starbucks is really where I grew the most. I mean, 10 and a half years is quite a long time. You’re quite a bit older, you know, compared to when you’re fresh out of school. And so, my journey through Starbucks from when I started to when I left. What I was doing was very different.

The license stores was always such a… I enjoyed it so much. I was on that team for 10 and a half years the whole time. And, I enjoyed it so much because there’s so much variety in what you’re doing and the different, almost like, clients you’re working for because it’s their budget. It’s their money. They’re paying for the store. So, not only do you have to own and be that guardian of the Starbucks brand, but you’re also putting it into someone else’s space with their money. So, you have to be really cognizant of the budget and what you’re doing, and cost. But, also being kind of that protector of the brand and knowing that we are the experts of what Starbuck’s look and feel is, which was always really fun and challenging.

And, they would always bring requests in. You know? Like in college university, they were like, we want this to be such a great space for our students. That’s really important. So, we want to spend a little extra money or if it’s a hotel, we want our guests to feel comfortable. You know? We want a fireplace. They’d ask for these really unique things that you might not typically find. And so, that was always really, really fun.

It wasn’t monotonous at all. It was really challenging and, and really unique sites every time. I tell people I was never bored there. Like, there was always a challenge, whether it was a request from a licensee or a design space challenge, like in the airports. Like, we get a lot of really small spaces. How do you fit a Starbucks and give a brand experience, yet make it operate at the high level it needs to because of the sheer volume it’s projecting to do?

Jp:

This almost feels like the project that your parents gave you with your sister’s bedroom.

Anna:

Yeah, yeah.

Jp:

Right? You had to fit into the environment that it was in. So, I guess you could say your design school experience started at 10, 12?

Anna:

Yeah. Potentially, yeah. It’s very similar. You know? If you kind of break it down to the basics, it’s very similar. Working for a client. Working with their budget, their timeline, all that stuff.

Chad:

So, 10 and a half years at Starbucks. That’s a long, long time. Especially when you’re, you know, that’s the beginning of your career, right?

Anna:

Mmhmm.

Chad:

So, starting at Starbucks. You started at the ground level.

Anna:

Mmhmm.

Chad:

What is it like going in and how would you say both your responsibility in task, but also your responsibility in your team changed over that 10 and a half years?

Anna:

Yeah. So, when I first started, Starbucks was still drawing stores in house. So, my main responsibility was to draw stores, produce design intent drawings. And, they are pretty complete. They, you know, have design details. They have floor plans, layout of fixtures, casework, equipment, furniture, flooring, the whole kit and caboodle. And then, as, I kind of moved along there at Starbucks, I became a Design Manager and was really owning the design top to bottom, and we started outsourcing. So, I would do the design in-house and then send it out for those drawings. We no longer did drawings inside, those were all outsourced. But, you really become the owner of the concept and then executing that; understanding how to get your vision executed through the Starbucks channel. You know? Through the ordering process, who orders what, what the GC’s [General Contractor] going to provide, how we can utilize our vendors to produce things for us? Because we own that relationship. And so, that becomes the real challenge, right?

And then, towards the end of my career, I became the Senior Design Manager and I was responsible more for the business side, staffing and resourcing of the Target and regional team of designers that sat in Seattle. And so, I definitely had more ownership over head count, budgets and store counts; making sure we were staffed and resourced appropriately. So…

Chad:

That sounds like fun.

Anna:

Yeah. It’s definitely a very different challenge from design. Design is all creative and seeing this vision in your head. And, this was a more tactical day to day challenge. You know, dealing with licensees and new potential licensees. There’s a little bit of business savvy in there, too to get them to partner with us. I mean, they can go with lots of different concepts, right? And so, how do we know that we’re really going to partner with them and show them that we’re there to make them successful as well? We do that through understanding their budgets and taking care of them. And so, there’s a lot of that in there as well.

Chad:

What was the learning curve of, I mean, you just mentioned a lot of like, detailed things.

Anna:

Mmhmm.

Chad:

There’s all these partners. There’s all this and there’s all that. I mean, when you were first starting out, like, how much of that did you know and how did you go about learning it?

Anna:

I didn’t know any of it.

Jp:

And this is design school.

Anna:

This is design school. So, I think there… My perspective is that as designers and creatives like, we’re constantly learning, right?

Chad:

Mmhmm.

Anna:

And, coming out of design school, you really have the basics and you can formulate concepts and make visions and see things. And, I think for me, personally, where I needed to learn the most was details, as a great example. Like, understanding how things are actually constructed and how materials are going to get placed on the wall. In what order do things go up? I mean, that’s just a really basic one. And so, I can start to detail materiality connections and things so that it looks really clean. Because, if something… you didn’t detail it right, some GC’s just gonna come over and slap a corner guard on it and it’s just like, “Oh God, that’s the worst, ugliest thing I’ve ever seen!” And, that’s not what you wanted, right? And so, the drawings are really your fall back. So, if they do that, then you can go back and be like, “No man. This is how it’s drawn here. You have to take that off.” So, the drawings really become that source of record for what your vision is. I think the understanding that what you put on paper is what is going to get built. And, if it’s not put on paper in a way the contractor can actually do it, they’re gonna do whatever they want.

And so, that’s like, one part. And so, what I did early on, I got feedback. You know? Like, you need to work on your detailing and do all of these things and really understand the process so that you understand how to detail correctly. And so, you know, I had some really great people around me on my team that had been in the field a really long time. And so, they became like, my detail mentors. Like, “Here’s what I want to do. Here’s some sketches I’ve done of details. Do you think this’ll work?” And, kind of going to them and using their expertise and knowledge in the field. And they’re like, “Yeah, but you could do it like this, or you could do it like that.” And I’m like, “Well, what about this?” And, I started developing relationships with people so I could really go to them with questions about things I didn’t understand. And, I think that’s just really important.

And then, as far as understanding how the ordering works, or Starbucks works, or all that stuff, it’s really going and finding those people and sitting down and listening to them. Like, walk me through how you order something. What happens? Show me what you do. You don’t need to understand or be able to do it again. But, just sitting down with them, understanding what they do so that what you put into the drawings is easier for them to order and things don’t get missed, you know? And, I think taking that time and making connections with people has served me well.

I know in my new role now at Amazon, I’m kind of in the middle of that. Like, who are you? What do you do? Can you show me how you’re doing this so that I can make sure to catch things on my end to make your job easier? Or whatever it is. And so, I truly believe that sense of curiosity and continually trying to understand and learn more is ongoing forever. No matter where you go, I think you have to dive deep into understanding everyone around you and how the process works to make things successful for everyone.

Jp:

Starting with that story that you gave us as a child, there was a sense of curiosity in there. I’m wondering if that same inherent development of curiosity was encouraged, or nurtured, or developed even further when you were in undergraduate. Or, was that something that you had to, to do on your own?

Anna:

I think it definitely is. And, I think there’s this innate kind of feedback structure in design school that you get in it. It’s really interesting. I’ve talked to people about feedback before. And, feedback so often is presumed to be negative, right? Like, it’s like a personal like, feedback.

Jp:

Yeah.

Anna:

Whoa. This is so bad.

Chad:

It’s something I’m doing wrong. Yeah.

Anna:

Right. It’s something I’m doing wrong.

Jp:

Or, it’s a personal attack.

Anna:

Yeah, yeah. Or, it’s like, I don’t like you because of… whatever.

Jp:

Yeah.

Anna:

I don’t even know. But, it was really interesting. So, we can talk more about this. I did a 200-hour yoga teacher training and we talked about feedback a lot. And, feedback is simply information. That’s all it is. So, if you can strip it down and just be like, “Okay, this is just information coming to me. I’m gonna take what works and I’m just gonna let the rest go.” And so, if you can approach feedback and critiques, is what we call them in design school, right?

Jp:

Yeah, yeah.

Anna:

You stand up, you present and then you get your crit. It’s also just feedback. It’s just information. I think being able to take that information in and understand what works, what doesn’t, and how you’re going to apply it really, really helps. So, yeah. I don’t, I think just the nature of design school itself really sets you up for that continual curiosity piece.

Jp:

What about with your employees that you work with and your colleagues? Do you find that providing them with criticism or feedback is encouraged or welcomed?

Anna:

Yeah. So, I… When I was at Starbucks, we did almost daily pinups and it’s purely a session for feedback. It’s like, here’s where I’m at on my floor plan. I’m really stuck. I can’t fit this in. This feels awkward. Whatever. What do you guys think? You know? What’s everyone think? What’s your opinion?

Because, you know we had people that had been at Starbucks for 20 years. You know? We had people that had been there for two weeks. You know? So, that level of collaboration and pulling information from the different states of people. Because someone who is brand new to Starbucks might see something that someone that’s been there for 11, 12 years like, “Well, we’ve always done it this way.” They might totally see it a different way. And, I think it might like… that mix opens up for more discussion and more exploration that might be a different solution. You know?

There’s that saying, “There’s no bad ideas in brainstorming.” I don’t, maybe that’s just something I say. I don’t know. Because there isn’t. And, I think the root of that is, while I might not agree with what Chad told me in this brainstorm, but I’m gonna explore his idea and go down this path. And, that path might not lead me to the end result Chad was telling me about, but it will lead me down somewhere that I might explore something off to the left or the right, you know? And, that might be the end, the right solution; the right design answer. But, maybe wasn’t where I started or where I intended to end. You know?

But, I think being really open to other people’s views and ideas, whether you end there or not is not a bad thing. I think exploring it and either proving it out or proving it wrong. One way or the other, at least you checked the box. Like, “Yeah, I tried that. It didn’t work.”

Jp:

Yeah.

Chad:

It’s like every new idea in brainstorming is a branch that you can keep going off to.

Anna:

Yeah.

Chad:

Except the difference is that sometimes those branches come back together.

Anna:

Yeah, and on the teams I have been on… I’m not one to really tell people what to do. I like to ask questions. By asking questions, you get people to think. I think the more they can think, the more they get a little more open and curious. So, if they’re not naturally a curious person, by asking them questions, you start to open up other options. Because they might be so focused on, you know, the deadline and just getting it done that they’re not seeing, you know, there might be a better solution here that we could work through. And, I think that probably goes across design disciplines.

Jp:

Oh yeah, definitely.

Anna:

Yeah.

Jp:

Especially thinking about graphic design, which is what I teach.

Anna:

Yeah.

Jp:

I’m often asking a question to the students to see how they will react to it or will make a comment or will ask a question to see, are they getting where I’m going with this?

Anna:

Mmhmm. And, I think my new job at Amazon is very much a, “Okay, well what do you think?” How does everyone like… Because we’re starting something new and no one really knows. You know? So, it’s very much, “Hey, what do we think about this?” And, we can have those discussions. I think that kind of environment is really successful and creates really successful designs.

Did that answer your question?

Chad:

Yeah. Well, I think that’s a good transition.

But, you work at Amazon and I think what we probably can talk about is the difference between working at a place like Starbucks where there’s a well established brand that, you know, evolves over time, but it’s relatively clear and straightforward in some ways, right?

Anna:

Yeah.

Chad:

But, you know, doing that for 10 and a half years, figuring that out, and having this well-oiled machine that you’ve been working in, and then all the sudden, transitioning to having a blank canvas of sorts.

Anna:

Yeah. It’s really different and challenging in such different ways. The blank canvas, while everyone’s always like, “I want a blank canvas.” It’s like, “Wow! I can color outside the lines? This is insane!” And, there’s a lot of cross pollination of different teams and different stakeholders that have points of view on what the store should be. I think it’s fun and exciting, but it’s iterative, right? We’re not just, “Okay, this is our floor plan. This is the way the operations are gonna work and we’re gonna go!” Just like in Starbucks, right? It’s like, “Hey, have we thought about doing it this way? Oh, let’s flip it upside down. Oh, let’s do it backwards.”

You know, there’s so many levers we could pull and so many patterns that we could put that in that it’s, I mean, we could go on forever and never open a store. You know? But, I think it’s just really interesting, too. And, Amazon just as a company is a very data driven company. I think everyone kind of knows that. And, not having a lot of data of how customers are using the store, I think becomes a challenge, right? Whereas Starbucks, you had thousands of stores. You could be like, “Oh hey, let’s test this thing.” You know? You could rapidly test it.

Chad:

Yeah.

Anna:

Whereas here, it’s like, “Well, we got one store. We can’t really test a whole lot.” You know? So, it’s all kind of assumptions and best case scenarios and you know? What is the right decision? And we don’t, we don’t really know the right decision until we, we get stores built and can get that data.

So, it’s kind of an interesting place to be in. But, you know, you’re kind of like, this is the floor plan, and you get pencils down. Awesome, we’re done! And then someone makes a comment like, “Well, what if we did this?” “Oh, okay. Let’s relook at this.” It’s a constant going back and looking at stuff again and again and again. That’s what’s really fun about it. That’s the challenge.

Chad:

You’re at that fun part of the process where it’s currently going back. It’s constantly going back between divergent and convergent thinking.

Anna:

Yeah.

Chad:

You’re just like, bouncing around between all the walls. Then the walls get a little smaller. And then, all the sudden, it’s bigger again.

Anna:

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, until we get more stores, I just think that’s the way we’re gonna be for a while. And so, the design group that we have, there’s four designers and we just, we all have kind of that, “Alright, this is what we’re gonna do this week and maybe next week it’ll be different, but that’s okay.” Knowing that the feedback that’s coming in isn’t like, that floor plan was bad or that design was bad. It’s like, “Hey, I think, you know, we’ll serve our customers better if we try something else or we do something different.” And, knowing that it’s not like, “Well, you sucked at that.” It’s not that at all. It’s understanding customer obsession is number one at Amazon. And so, understanding that this is coming from a customer facing or, you know, potentially ops facing because as design, they’re also our customer. Request or ask or relook at something to make sure that the business is successful.

Chad:

Oh, and I guess it’s also kind of really interesting, too because being in Amazon and working in that space, you’re also probably ignoring some normal design patterns that you’d come across in a store.

Anna:

Like, as far as.

Chad:

As far as like, walking into a place in, as a consumer knowing exactly where I’m supposed to go, what I’m supposed to do because a lot of other stores are like that.

Anna:

Right.

Chad:

Versus reimagining what that experience could be like and this is what a future design pattern could be.

Anna:

Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s totally true. You know, we, most people build their habits from what’s available. So, if we’re creating something that’s brand new and never been done before, people don’t really know how to use it. But they learn really quickly.

Chad:

Yeah.

Anna:

Like, the store we have, people figured it out pretty quick.

Chad:

Yeah.

Anna:

And, they get used to it really quick. I know I have.

Chad:

Yeah.

Anna:

And so, that’s really unique. But there’s also some interesting things in here. Just as humans, we tend to do things the same no matter what. And, this could be argued for days. So, the way you enter a store, most people turn to the right. Like, it’s just kind of like, you enter on the right. You exit on, you know, you come out. It’s not, it’s just how we drive.

Chad:

Is that a cultural thing?

Anna:

Yeah. It’s how we drive in the U.S. So, that’s like, how people will go in and they typically like, hang to the right. Right? Whereas in the U.K. or somewhere where they drive opposite, it might be opposite. You know? They enter in on the left and they exit on the left. That’s just the way it is. So, we actually have had conversations, you know, about customers coming in and it’s like, “Well, they’re just going to come in and go to the right. So, that should be what products should go over there.” And then, we have this discussion that people are like, “Well, are they really gonna do that? How do we know? We don’t have any real data that says that. I mean, we could probably find it.” But you know, it’s just an interesting conversation that we still have. And we’re like, “Well, people are probably gonna try and go in on the right.

Chad:

Yeah.

Anna:

Like, end of the day.

Chad:

And, you could reinforce that by the way you design the space.

Anna:

Exactly.

Chad:

Or, you could not.

Anna:

Right. Or, if we had a situation where we needed them to enter and go left, we’re gonna have to figure out how to design that in and make it very clear that you enter in on the left, right? And we’ve had a few situations where we’ve explored that. It’s like, well what do we do? Like, we have no option except for to make them enter on the left. Go to the left. So, what does that start to look like? And, it creates really fun conversations.

It’s really interesting, too. If you look at, I mean, even Starbucks is this way… There’s a particular customer path or customer journey that most stores have thought through and this is what they want you to do, or what they want their customers to experience in the store. And, we have those same conversations, you know.

At Starbucks it was like, you want someone to come in, you want them to walk past the merch, maybe think about buying a mug. You look at the food case. You order. You pick up and then you customize and you leave. That’s kind of the order in which the customer journey flows at like, a really high level. And then, there’s also the operations side of it. So like, the beverage production and how the partners work behind the bar. I think that was always really fascinating to me and I loved talking to our ops engineering team a lot of times. Because I had really challenging small stores I was like, “Okay, We have to figure out how to make this work. Oh by the way, it’s gonna be like, a million dollar store.” And so, I think it’s really interesting. For me, that’s really interesting. Like, how do you operationally lay out a store or, you know, affect the interior space of a store to adjust someone’s experience and how they come in to that space?

Chad:

So, I wanted to change the topic right as we’re kinda coming here to the end a little bit. At the beginning of our conversation, you were talking a lot about how you were little and how you had pens and markers and like, design really came out of your own personal interests and stuff like that. And, I was curious about how design impacts your life outside of work today in whatever forms.

Anna:

Yeah. I think design is just kind of in my nature, right? I am always looking for ways to keep creating, even when I’m not at work. Like, work is a lot of like, floor plans, Revit, and you know? It’s not shiny all the time. And so, outside of work, I have our home, which I love to try things out and do stuff. I think at my last place, I probably painted it about four times, just different colors cause paint is cheap. And, you know, here we have, our front room is like, our creative space and we do some costumes. Like, I like to sew, create things, make jewelry… Just kind of explore all the, those small, little things you can do that push your mind a little bit differently and get the juices flowing. I do have adult coloring books, because they’re really fun still.

I, at work… So, Amazon is a very written word type of culture. They write a lot of papers. Written word has never really been my strong suit, so I’m working to take a writing class in the next few months just to help me explore that. I’m a really good free writer. But, I’m not a good technical paper writer. So, that’s a real challenge for me that I’m trying to get a little better at. It’s really uncomfortable.

Then, like I mentioned before, I also teach yoga. I think that’s just another creative expression of like, physically and how you can create a sequence and then physically express that. I think is really unique and fun.

Jp:

I like the idea of the way that you think about creativity as more than just, I do it from 9 to 5. I’m wondering if you can maybe speak a little bit more about, is that something that has been inherent to you throughout all of these years? You know, we kind of started with 9 year old or 10 year old Anna and then you went over present day Anna. Has creativity been something that has seeped into every part of who you are?

Anna:

I think so. I think when I get bored, my first thing is not to turn on Netflix. Although, that is so much fun. And, I think there is some beautiful television and wonderfully scripted shows that are creative in itself and that, I am not good at. And so, I’m really inspired by acting and people who can write like that.

But, the first thing is like, “Can I paint something in here? Can I go make something else?” Or, “I saw this piece of jewelry. I think I can make that.” You know? Like, doing those kinds of things, for me, are really fun and I like to do them. You know?

Cooking is another thing that, I think, is super creative that I really enjoy. Cooking and baking. I made a wedding cake for Stan’s mom. I’d never done that before and I was like, “I think I could.” She asked me. I’m like, “I could do that!” You know? Like, I’m not real shy to try something.

I think we live in such a day and age that my light stopped working the other day and I’m like, “I’m gonna Google this.” YouTube is amazing. And, I rewired a light switch. It’s not… The information’s out there if you want it and you’re willing to try and know how to access it and the tools that you need.

My dad always told me, “To make the job easy, you have to have the right tools.” So, I’m not shy about buying tools, either. So, whether that’s markers or, art supplies, actual tools, cooking utensils or whatever that is. I think, if you don’t have the right tools, it makes it really hard and that’s not enjoyable. You know, if you have the right tools to do something, it makes it enjoyable and really fun. And, I think that’s something my parents were always super supportive of, was giving me some tools to work with and letting me explore a little bit. I mean, I’m not saying I got everything I asked for, but I’m saying, where they could, they would allow me to express myself and try new things.

I took a sewing class I think when I was in middle school. It was like, I was the youngest person in this class. I must have been like 12, or something. And, it was a summer class like they have at the YMCA, or whatever. I was the youngest person in there with all these people learning to sew. It was pretty fun. But, I asked my mom if I could do it and she was like, “Yeah, sure. If that’s what you wanna do. Great!” You know? So, I don’t know. Being creative is constant for me. You know? Whether that’s clothes or shopping or cooking. I think some people might not think those are creative, but I would challenge and say that it is. You know? Everything we do in life is problem solving of some nature or another.

Jp:

Yes.

Anna:

And so, that is a creative process and that is coming up with creative solutions. I think creativity is everywhere, it’s just a matter of how you actually look at it.

Chad:

Mmhmm. It’s the lens through which you choose to look at it.

Jp:

Yeah. I love the idea of tools. Has there been a tool that you took from, from the beginning of your career that you still use now? It doesn’t need to be a physical tool, but maybe any sort of thing that to pass on?

Anna:

Yeah. You know, I have this, it’s a physical thing. I have this wheeled ruler. It’s like a clear ruler. It’s maybe like, well obviously it’s a little more than 12 inches and it’s maybe 3 inches long and then it has wheels. Like, it has this little metal thing with wheels that you attach to.. And, I use that constantly, all the time. Every time someone sees it, they’re like, “Where’d you get that? That’s awesome.” And, it’s awesome. As like, a tool, I don’t know. I use it for all kinds of stuff. It’s crazy. But other tools that I use a lot besides that, that’s probably the best one, honestly. Good pens. Don’t go cheap on pens. Buy yourself a nice pen.

Jp:

That was funny because we just came from the International District and I was… Chad met me in a book store where I was buying pens.

Anna:

Yep. See. As designers, we all have our pens we like and there’s no pen shaming. Everyone’s different.

Jp:

Yeah.

Anna:

They like their pens for different reasons and that’s great.

Chad:

They didn’t have my favorite pen.

Jp:

I know, yeah.

Anna:

Well, there’s also different pens for different uses. Like, sometimes I like a felt top. Sometimes I don’t. You know? Just kinda depends.

Jp:

I’m definitely a .3, .5 pen and that’s what I have searched for now.

Anna:

Yeah. Do you like the erasable?

Jp:

No.

Anna:

Oh…

Jp:

Oh, no, no. I love my mistakes. I love scratching things out. As I’ve gotten older and have made more and more mistakes, especially when writing, I love to try to draw a straight line.

Anna:

See. You need my wheeled ruler.

Jp:

I do. Yes.

Anna:

It would be nice and straight. I’ll have to get a picture of that ruler for you guys.

Jp:

Yeah.

Anna:

It’s at my desk at work.

Chad:

Well, Anna, thank you for this wonderful conversation.

Anna:

Thank you.

Chad:

It’s been wonderful talking to you and learning more about you and your journey in design. Thank you for sharing.

Anna:

Thanks. It’s been really fun. Thanks you guys.

Jp:

Take care.

 

*Special thank you to Pacific Lutheran University’s School of Arts & Communication Professional Development Grant for funding the transcription of this podcast.