On this episode, we talked to Timothy Bardlavens, a Product Design Leader, Cultural Strategist, co-founder of the Design + Diversity Fellowship Program, and DEI—Diversity, Equity & Inclusion—consultant. Timothy talks to us about his experiences in design and tech as a black gay man from the South, the importance of owning and bringing your full self to your work, and the difference and importance between surviving and thriving in the workplace and the world.

---

Chad:

Timothy Bardlavens, thank you for joining us on This is Design School today.

Timothy:

Absolutely.

Chad:

So, one thing we wanted to get started with was, kind of, understanding where you are now, and then, kind of, hearing your story of how you got there.

Timothy:

Yeah. I am a gay black man from the South. I am from Columbia, South Carolina. Well, born in Greensboro, North Carolina, raised in Colombia. And, I am the normal kind of story of a black man from the South—single mother for a bit, but then stepfather came in. But, you know modestly lower- to higher/lower-income, if that’s a thing. Went to school at Coastal Carolina University, which is a state school that most people have never heard of. The design program was only a few years old, if that. But, I had a great professors.

Yeah, actually I first started out in English. So, I wanted to… My major was in English because I wanted to be a writer. Creative writing was my thing. I used to write poetry most of my childhood.

Yeah, I was in English for awhile. You know, listening about all these different authors from around the world. And, my goal was to be the Editor in Chief of Jet Magazine. It was the blackest magazine I could ever think of. And, I was like, “That’s my goal.” And so, at one point I had an epiphany. I was like, “Ugh. If I want to be an editor of a magazine, I should know how to layout these articles, and things. Like, I should know this stuff. And so, changed my minor from philosophy, of all things, to design.

And, during that time. I also was working in the Office of Student Activities and Leadership. The two women who are my supervisors, Ms. D and Ms. Diane, they kind of pushed me to say, “Hey, there’s more to you than this. You should do more.” Like, “You should let people see who you are.”

And so, I think it really just boils down to… At one point they gave me, like, I was supposed to just create a poster for some events that were going on, on campus. And, then that smaller role turned into me working just doing design work—doing posters for the whole university. So, I end up changing my minor to my major. I want to say this is my first semester of my junior or senior year? So ended up adding on another semester, I think. And yeah, I cranked through all of the modern art history courses, I cranked through, like, a bunch of stuff. And, I really felt super behind the whole time because all these people had been in design and art classes for their whole college career. Where, as I’m just coming in and we’re ready to graduate.

I really felt behind. But, something that I found really quickly helped me stand out was during critiques. I could give probably the best critique of the class. I was like, I notice that a lot of my peers started to come to me asking me questions about things. That’s where I feel like I kind of moved up to be on the same level in a sense. Yeah, so that was that—graduated with my bachelors in design, minor in English. And, I went to work.

My first job was at a trophy manufacturer called Jones School Supplies. So, you think of like the participation trophies you get during field day or the perfect attendance certificates. I was the dude who sat at a computer and cranked those things out for schools and then sent them to a printer. So, I was a Graphics Administrator. I got fired from that. And, I went into retail for a couple of years. But, in doing that, I also did some freelance work. And, I met, now, one of my best friends. He gave me opportunity to rebrand his company, redesign his entire website, redesign some of the property environment, signage—he had all kinds of stuff. And, I kind of leveraged that work that I did with him to get my second design job in a company called Sirona Dental.

Yeah, so I did that for a year and a half. I absolutely hated my life. I was the only designer. I wasn’t growing and it was a very passive aggressive environment that had never lived in before because I’m a very direct person. And so, I learned what it meant to be a black man in corporate America in that job. Because, I learned that, as a black guy, I should not go to work and be mad. Angry means aggressive and that’s dangerous. And so, you can’t do that at work because people get scared from that. You have to always smile. You have to always tell people things are great. For example, when you have a problem with your manager, it’s not them who’s doing the thing wrong, even though it’s them. It’s how can you do better to help improve your relationship with them? And so, like, having to navigate through these spaces in a way that I never had to in my life. I was always just genuinely Timothy.

And so, I left that role. It was interesting because at that point I was like, “I will never have a real design job in the South.” And, I had the realization really early that I had to get out of my comfort zone. And so, I decided to cast a wide net. I actually ended up getting, interviewing and getting a job in Ernst and Young in D.C. A week before I was going I had another realization. It was something I thought of before, which was this thing of, because I knew what it meant to not have anything, it was I never wanted to just survive. I wanted to thrive. And, that difference was meant a lot to me. And so, I made the decision a week before I was supposed to get in the car and drive up to D.C. to start this new job. I called, excuse me, I emailed the recruiter, because I was a coward, and I said, “I’m sorry, but I can’t come. I can’t come to this. Like, I just can’t take the job anymore.” Her response back was, “Good luck on your career.” And, I thought it was a nail in the coffin. And, at that time, I had had only one interview with Capital One for a digital art director role and it had been about six weeks since they called me back. So, for all intensive purposes, like, “Yeah, you didn’t get the job.” But, I held out for it. I was like, “You know, I’m just going to, you know. This is the thing. And, it’s going to be the thing. It is going to be right for me.” I slept on my sister’s couch. I slept in my grandmother’s spare room. And, I just bounced back and forth between the two. I was completely broke. I did that for another six weeks, almost. And, like no job and just trying to figure it out. And, in the meantime, I was applying for hundreds of jobs. Like, hundreds of them. Every day I would just apply for as many as I possibly could. But, all of a sudden, I got a call back from Capital One and they were like, “Hey, we want to fly you down, talk to you.” And, when I got there, they apologized for, like, having taken so long to get back to me. And, a week later after that, they gave me an offer. I was like, “Great. Awesome. I’m excited.” And then they said, “We will give your sign on bonus on your first paycheck.” And, I was like, “Dang. I don’t have any money.” And so, I had another, like, moment of, “I’m not going to get this job, because I want to ask them to get an advance.” Like, I got really paranoid. So, I talked to the recruiters like, “I can’t make it down there.” And so, she’s like, “Okay, let me go and talk to them and come back.” She came back and she said, “Okay, they’re going to give you this amount of money, and we’re actually going to go ahead and take care of the taxes for you as well. So, you can just get it straight out.” And, I used that money to… I had a Toyota Camry at the time. I loaded that sucker up and put a hitch to a U-Haul to the back of that thing. Which, apparently you don’t really do. And, I left South Carolina at 2 o’clock in the morning with my mother standing on the porch crying. And, I hit the road and I drove 16 hours straight to get to Dallas. And, I had like what, four days to find an apartment? And, I found a place and I was there for a couple of years as a digit art director for Capital One. That was fun. But, yeah. So, I did that. And then, at some point I realized again I wasn’t growing. It was like, “I want to do more.” At the same time, I just been introduced to UX. And, it’s like, you know… because I’d been working in marketing for the most of the time. And so, UX is really interesting because it’s like how people do the things they do? Like, why did they tick? At the same token, I was learning a lot about organizational culture. And, it was me learning what it meant to have, in a homogeneous culture, which is basically when to be different is wrong. Everyone is safe and everyone is okay if you just don’t put out their differences. You say how everyone is the same. And, that was really hard for me because I wanted to be myself. But, I was told that being yourself makes others uncomfortable and so you should be like everyone else. And, that’s the culture that we were developing. And, it was really hard. I fought against that. At one point my director, I met her husband during the holiday party, and I walked up to him and say, “Hey, I’m the black guy.” And, she turns ruby red. And, he and I have the best conversation about Atlanta, where they used to live, and how black it was, and how amazing they loved it, and the food, and everything. And, I realized at that point that me being unapologetically black and being myself and just calling out the elephant room up front—the thing that I have always been chastised if you don’t do—it broke down a barrier and allowed me to connect with people in a way that I’m normally would never have connected with them on.

And so, those are a really interesting thing for me and really impactful. It kind of spurred the other part of my career in culture. So, when I left Capital One I had actually had done a week long course or intensive with Adaptive Path for their UX, and I was like “Okay, I’m ready to do it. I’m a professional now after a week.” And, I had a recruiter reach out to me about a role. And, I said “Okay, I’ll interview for this. Sure.” And, I went in there and I sold it. And, when I got the offer I was scared out of my mind, like, impostor syndrome. I was like, “Wait, I just sold myself way too well and I don’t know what to do now.”

Jp:

Yeah.

Timothy:

I just hope I don’t get fired. And, I was there for four months. And then, I got reached out to from someone at Microsoft, a recruiter, and she didn’t realize that I had been in my job less than six months. And so, I was like “That’s fine. You know just a throw my resume out there, if something bites it will. If not then it won’t.” I wasn’t thinking about Microsoft at all—wasn’t on my radar. And, I didn’t expect anything to come back. And, a couple of days later, there were three teams who wanted me. I went up and interviewed and I got an offer from one. And, on the flight back up here to officially like move into my corporate housing. At 33,000 feet in the air, I had another moment. I was like, “What the hell are you doing? You need to get off this plane and go back. “You are going to get fired. This is not going to workout for you.” And, that was almost two years ago? So yeah, I actually have had a very… I’ve done a lot in a very short amount of time. My career is very short.

Jp:

How many years from graduation to now had that been?

Timothy:

I graduated in 2012.

Jp:

2012. Wow!

Timothy:

Yeah. Well, it’s a couple things, I guess, I missed in there. I did get my Master’s from Texas A&M Commerce. For me, I’ve always had this problem in my entire career of, if I’m bored, I’m unhappy. And, if I’m bored then I don’t feel like I’m growing and I have to get out of there. And, that’s been my career. It has been really around, if I’m not growing here, like, I’ve already learned all this stuff. Give me something new to learn. Oh, you don’t have anything else you want to give me? Or, you don’t feel like I’m good enough to do this thing? Or, whatever the case may be, “Okay, well then I’ll just go and do it for myself.” And so, it has been my track record of me taking it on to say, “I’m now done with this. I need something new. Or, I have to go somewhere new.”

And, for the most part up until I’ve gotten to Microsoft, it’s been… I’ll just go to somewhere new. Microsoft is the first time where I said, “I need something new or I’m going somewhere else.” And, I was given a lot more. A whole lot more, which is great. Like, I feel like I’m still in this place of learning and growing which is nice. Because it’s tiring moving every year or every couple of years. I think I’ve lived in three different states, three different time zones in the past three years, three or four years.

Jp:

And so, you had just mentioned that Microsoft has kind of stepped up to the plate. When you say, “I want to learn more. I want to want to do more.” How has that feeling of being in a place that is actually wanting you to be more, to do more. How does that feel in comparison to where you’ve been the last couple of years?

Timothy:

I mean, it’s great. To be honest… I was considering leaving Microsoft and my skip-level manager, so my manager’s manager, he says to me point blank, “You can’t leave because you’re black.” Like, which on some level, like, “Seriously? Someone said that?” But, on another level is like, “Well, yeah.” ‘Cause, you know, when there’s already not many black people in design. Design is very homogeneous. And, to say that we’re building experiences for the world, we can’t lose people of color and people with diverse backgrounds. I appreciate that, but I think them saying it wasn’t the thing that really means anything. It was like I don’t trust what people say&mdash#fatherissues. I don’t trust what people say, but the follow through is what I cared about. And honestly, the thing that really kept me there was… ’cause a lot of was around culture and organizational culture and things that I felt I couldn’t connect with 100 percent, especially travel around the country and out of the country, speaking on it.

But, it was my manager’s manager’s manager so my double-skip, who sent me an email. He was like, “Hey, this is important to me. And, I would like for you to be a part of this change that we’re trying to make.” One of my old peers, she is also close friends with him. And she was like, “If he says it, then it’s true. You should believe him.” And, that was the only reason I stuck around. But, it was with this thing of, I feel as though I’m giving this white man my career to hold on to. And, there’s a fear there where I was like, “I’ve never done this before. I’ve never let someone have control over my career.” And then, the other thing was, “I’ll give it six months and see what happens. And, then I’ll give it six months after that, and see what happens.” And, this thing of coming from the perspective of having one foot out the door, but, like, just being completely honest with myself of, “You need to see how the world really looks, and see if it matches up to the things that you find to be morally the right thing. And, if it’s not, then you have to be practical enough to step away from it.” And so, I have to look at it from that lens.

But, it did throw me off when it was like, “What can we do to keep you?” Like, whoa. That’s an option? I didn’t know that was an option. I thought it was just one of those. Okay, great. Well, thanks for your service and we’ll see you later. And so, it threw me for a loop in a way where I felt obligated to see where it went. Whereas, it would have been much easier if we could just cut ties. And, that was hard. ‘Cause I like clean breaks.

Chad:

So, what has changed since then? They mentioned being a part of this change. Like, what did that include?

Timothy:

Yeah. I mean, we’re still in the trial period.

Chad:

You’re still dating? (laughs)

Timothy:

Right. You know?

I think that, if nothing else, there is listening that’s happening. You know, one of the things that I talked to the leadership about was, there are some big issues that we need to tackle when it comes to culture. But, because the organization in which were in, they need to see that we’re trying. Then, we need to have very quick small wins within the next 30 to 60 days. And, the leadership really stepped up. They hit some of those those immediate needs that people need to see, like, “Hey, we’re listening.” Like, “We know that change takes time. But, if you can’t prove that you’re trying quickly enough, then you’re going to lose the people.” Like, “No one’s going to believe you.”

And so, I think that was the most important thing, was what can we do in 60 days to prove that we’re trying? And then, how can we make sure we consistent and make sure this is consistently part of our conversation, and start the strategize for the future? That’s been the biggest thing. And, for me it’s probably the most important because I tell anybody that I’m not the best designer, but I’m a really good strategist and that’s what I do well. This has what’s help me succeed in all of my roles is being great at strategy.

And so, with culture it’s the same thing. Strategy work is the same as user experience work, right? Like, as a user experience designer you understand that an organization is a designed entity, and in it being a designed entity that people that are in it are users and they have a specific experience in which we’re trying to encourage, to develop, whatever the case may be. From that perspective, you take UX, apply it to organizational culture, you start to see a lens that you haven’t thought of before.

You see it in a way of, like, what are the user centric statements? Like, as a user, I want to what? As an employee, I want to let you know what are the things that we promise users. Like, you’re using a computer, using your phone, there’s a certain promise that comes with these devices that we sell. What are the promises that we’re selling to people in an organization, in a work environment? And, I think the same thing can apply to universities, right? Right now, every school is completely different, and their curriculums are different, and what they’re students leave with are completely different. But, the promise for every university is the same. We’re preparing you for the world. Are we following through with that? This is totally different question.

Same with business. I think that’s how I’ve been, like, how I’ve seen it and how I’ve seen the change happening. How I’ve approached a lot of it is through, like, as a user experience designer, how are we creating and crafting experiences for our users? That was a really roundabout answer.

Chad:

No, it was a very colorful example. I mean, it makes a lot of sense. When it comes down to it, design is everything and organizational design is no different. You can look at everything from that lens.

Timothy:

Yeah. I usually tell people… ‘Cause I’ve been asked before. Usually when it comes to UX, what type of design is UX? And, I tell people, like, UX is design. There’s no graphic design, architecture, industrial design. No, it’s all UX. Usually when I give talks, I talk about how there’s diversity, which is how we hire; inclusion, which is how we retain; but, the umbrella across all of it is culture. I think, in design, UX is the same thing. Graphic versus digital versus architecture versus industrial versus product, whatever. Those are all executions. But, they’re all under the umbrella of experience. And so, we see UX as the umbrella for all design. Then, you start to realize how we should approach things. When you build a building, there’s a promise to someone you’re making. You’re promising that it has, like, the right kind of structure. You’re promising that it will keep them safe, keep them warm, keep them cool, whatever the case may be. When you’re building a city, you’re promising to take care of citizens. We fail at that a lot, but it’s all designed. So, that’s how I’ve been seeing both culture and design is, these are umbrella terms that we use to define the work that we do.

Jp:

Timothy can you talk a little bit about your work with the Design + Diversity Conference?

Timothy:

Yeah. So, the Design + Diversity Conference actually started from the thesis work from a person, a great guy, named Timothy Hykes from Saint Louis. He partnered with the amazing Antoinette Carrol, who also is from Saint Louis. She’s the CEO of Creative Reaction Lab, which is an amazing nonprofit that does a lot of equity based community work centered through design. And so, they started a few years ago and have… What the focus of… There is not many, if not any, design conferences specifically for people of color. To talk about… Well, excuse me, actually it is beyond people of color. That would limit it too much. It was really around just this diversity space in general. So this year, for example, there were talks around not only equity but around ageism, around ablism. All of these different topics. And, it really is just supposed to bring light to the parts of design that we don’t hear enough about. God bless Michael Beirut and I love Paula Schere. But, they are not design, you know? They are not the end all, be all of design.

Jp:

Exactly.

Timothy:

And so, it brings these voices that you have never heard from before, likely, to a stage and it allows people to see themselves. My work specifically started this year. But, it started with a conversation, because I quit AIGA. And, including AIGA, I highlighted one of the most important things, which was they’ve had the diversity and inclusion task force for years. Honestly, they’ve had this task force for almost 30 years or more. I left the organization partially because of the fact that we’ve had this for 30 years, and yet, they had no impact in it. And, that has bothered me. It continues to bother me. And so, because of that, and because of multiple other things, I completely pulled myself financially from AIGA. I would still participate in certain events, if I’m asked to. Mainly because I feel like it’s important to have a person of color at those events. And so, in doing so, I had a conversation Antoinette, who is actually on the national board for AIGA, and we talked about, just our backgrounds, and how much we are alike, and how we didn’t have a lot of mentors, and we didn’t have a lot of people who told us, like, what does it mean to be a designer? And, what is that path? And, like to give us access to things we’ve never had before. So, from that came the Design + Diversity Fellowship. And, we had over a thousand impressions on the website. Of those, I want to say over 300 people applied. Which was so many applications to go through. And then, from there we narrowed it down and picked 10 individuals. From the sponsorship side, we got a lot of great sponsorship from Google, from Adobe, and from Microsoft. Man, it was just great people. They’re awesome. In fact, let me challenge myself to see if I can remember everybody’s name. There is Shelby Zink, Angel Lopez, there’s Maya Bird-Murphy, there’s Adam Chagani, Dana Chan. There is Akiel Allen, there’s Antonio Wooten, Andre Reed. There’s Aleenah Ansari, who’s actually from Seattle, and Quinton Ward. So, those are our 10 fellows. They’re amazing. The goal of the fellowship is to one, bring design to these under represented communities in a way that they haven’t seen it before. But also, to provide access and to amplify voices. Yeah, so it’s just like these great personalities. And, so every month we are providing different mentoring calls for them. And then, we work through them, creating their own Design + Diversity Mini-conferences.

Jp:

That’s awesome.

Chad:

I think one of the things I was thinking about was, you talked a little bit about some of the struggles of being perceived by others when you were going through school. Then, coming out of school and at a certain point, you were just like, “Nah, I’m going to be Timothy and this is me.” And, you kind of forced through some things to, like, put yourself in positions and, kind of, put yourself out of your comfort zone while being unapologetically Timothy. And, you are finding success in that, and you’ve been finding success in that. And, it’s interesting talking about the difference between having fear while doing that, but exuding confidence. Finding success in that, pushing through fears of being yourself, and doing that, but yet, being confident in it. And, if that feels like a difference? But then, also transitioning to looking for your own role models to help you be like, “What should I do?” And then, turning around and realizing that you might be a role model for others.

Timothy:

Yeah, yeah.

Jp:

I’m curious if you still feel the impostor syndrome that you talked about earlier?

Timothy:

Yeah, so confidence is such an interesting word. I think it’s interesting to me because yeah, with the impostor syndrome, I always feel like I’m faking it until I make it. And, even when I know the right thing to do or the know the right answer, it’s this weird dichotomy with me. I’m actually extremely introverted. I don’t like to speak out. I don’t like to be around people a lot. I’m in my own little shell most of the time. And, people like, “No Tim, that’s not possible.” But yeah, it’s even more interesting because when I talk to emerging designers who have… especially people who I work with, they like, you know, say, “Tim you just you have this confidence about you and you do these things. You just seem to be unapologetically yourself.” And, I tell them the whole time I’m scared like heck. Like, I am terrified when I’m in a meeting and there is someone who is three levels higher than me and I know I have the right thing. I know that should save this thing. And, I can listen in the meeting and get to the core of what’s being said, and help summarize and kind of redirect the conversation. I know I have this ability, but I am scared like heck to do it. But, then I do it anyway. And, I force myself to do it because I feel as though I can either let fear stop me from growing completely, or I can say, ”Okay, yeah I’m scared.” Identify it. And I’m probably going to sweat through this shirt that I have on, but I’m going to speak up and I’m going to talk through this thing until I’ve said my peace. And, I found that that’s the thing that has helped me—is even when I’m really scared, when I know it’s the right thing to say, or this is the right thing to do. Or know I should, like, there’s something important that I want to say that I felt would contribute to the conversation, me just saying that thing… It has been more than not, I’ve had leadership look at me and nod and say, “Yeah, exactly.” And, that has helped me. One of the biggest things about growth, especially in a large company, is partnerships and visibility, right? Like, it’s the people you work around, not just the people you work around identify with you and know you, know your work, and want to work with you, but the partners. People from other teams. How do you impact them positively? How do you show up with them? How do you create those partnerships? And from there, is how you actually grow in an organization. But, what I can do is create these new strategies and partnerships, and then develop an awesome team in which they do all this crazy stuff that I could never imagine. And, I can help bring their vision to life, and they can help me bring my vision to life. And so, that’s kind of what I’ve seen has been super helpful. And, it stemmed from the thought of not just being heads down, do my own thing, scared, but really standing out and saying that, “Okay, this is who I am. This is what I know I can do.” Like, “I know these are my super powers.” And so, like, for me, especially starting out as a writer who wanted to go into journalism. I’m a storyteller. That’s the thing that got me my job at Microsoft, was I can tell this story. And so, I leverage that. Before that, most of my design jobs I got because I was a designer who could write. And now, it’s the person who can sit in a meeting and listen, and then summarize everything that’s been said in a way that we know the actionable next steps, and that we can come back and… I can go in and take something that’s super nebulous and say, “Okay, this is an area that we need to define.” And, I can say, “Okay, I’ll work with you to define it.” And, we’ll work through, we’ll create principles, we’ll talk through things, we’ll create a vision for this stuff. And, that’s what I do really well, and those have been my superpowers. And so, I think that’s what has helped me in this—battle some of my impostor syndrome. And now, I know when I’m doing something that aligns with my superpower. And, if it’s something that I’m weak at, then I do one of two things. One, I’ll try to figure it out, or two, I’ll delegate.

All:

(laugh)

Jp:

But, I think that also goes back to this idea of you’re wanting to have more people, either at the table or on the field, to show the next generation that here are others that are doing unique things that are either people of color, or that come from a diverse background, or that have access to all of these other opportunities that there are out there.

Timothy:

Yeah, of course. We fight so hard to find the role model you need. Then, you become the role model for other people in a way you didn’t expect. And then, take that a step further and say that, “Okay. Well, what was the thing that was limiting me? Like, what is the whole purpose of a role model?” And, it’s this thing of, especially in the corporate environment, what’s the difference between mentorship and sponsorship? A mentor is someone who just, kind of, helps you work through a few things, gives you some good advice. But, a sponsor is a mentor plus someone who’s willing to put their neck on the line and to say, “I’m vouching for you, and I’m fighting for you, and I’m going to help provide access to things that you didn’t have before.” And, that’s really been the thing that I’ve been trying to do the most. Sometimes I fail at it. Sometimes I speak to people who have really interesting perspectives and I’m like, “Man, I really want to, like, work with you on something.” But, I just have no connections, or no way to do that for you. And so, it’s like, I’ll keep you in my rolodex and see if I can come back to you later. But yeah, my mission is access. How can I provide access to peers, to direct reports, to the fellows, to get into a place that I wasn’t able to, or maybe was a little harder for me to do? I’ve had a really quick trajectory. But, God help me if I didn’t have to hustle every time. You have no have no idea how many times I may have tweaked some wording, or over embellished on my resume, or did whatever I had to do just to get in the door. Because, once I’m in the door, I’ll prove that everything up in a resume is true in some way, even if I’m learning while I’m going. You won’t know I’m learning. You’re just going to think I’m executing.

But, it’s a hustle that I’ve constantly had to do. And, I think it’s a hustle that is almost unfair in some way. Because, I’ve seen others who have such strong access into avenues that I could never get. Who had, like, they have to work hard once they are in, but that door was open for them. Where I’ve had to, you know, damn near take a sledgehammer to a door just to, like, open it up. And, honestly it’s really just been, like, half the time for me it’s just been saying, “I can do this. And, I’m just going to keep going forward until I get it.” Like, “Somebody, somewhere, is going to give me a chance. I’m going to tell someone a story that they will think they cannot live without. And so, they’re going to want to bring me on.” I’ll knock down 15 doors for myself if it means that I’m leaving it wide open for the next person behind me. So, yeah. Yeah, it’s funny. I just got back from a vacation. I just sent notes to my direct reports just saying thanks. Like, “Hey. Thank you for taking the bull by the horns and doing this.” And, it’s because it’s especially, as a leader, as someone who has to find time to step away to just reinvigorate themselves so they can really be the best they can for other people, being able to step away and knowing when you come back that things have been taken care of. You know, the train is still moving. There is no fires. I’m not getting no emails with complaints on them. Like, that’s awesome for me. It’s like, “Okay, I can I can trust them even more than I already trusted them.” It;s like. “Okay, we’re moving in the right direction.” So, that’s kind of the thing that I really enjoy is seeing the growth in people. Like that gives me joy. It’s like, “Ah, you get it.” ‘Cause there’s something I put on my presentations, too. Is that, again, we’re designers. And, we design for the world. And so, design should represent the world. And, it doesn’t today. One day it will.

Jp:

I like that. That’s good optimism.

Timothy:

I mean, we have no choice, right? In about 2060 the majority will be a minority. If design stays remains the way it is today, and I’m talking about Design, big D across the board, like architecture, all of the industries, if they remain as homogenous as they are today, then we will continuously miss the mark when it comes to creating experiences for people, regardless of what that experience is.

Jp:

Well, this has been really insightful, and thank you. I feel very inspired by your interview and by your stories. So, thank you.

We like to end with a couple of recommendations, and so I was wondering if I can pick your brain on a couple of things here. The first is, I noticed that you have some amazing fashion sense with rings, shoes, hats. There’s a hat on the table in front of us here. Recommendations of, like, to build the perfect wardrobe. What would you suggest?

Timothy:

That’s a great question. I think every person is different. I will admittedly say that my taste is a bit higher end. Well, a lot higher end. I have a problem.

Jp:

A problem or an investment?

Timothy:

It is very much an investment. I think the higher end it is the less they make. So, it’s an investment. And, I probably won’t ever sell. I don’t even like returning clothes. I would say that there’s, like everyone, I feel has a cornerstone piece in their closet. Like there’s one thing that is theirs. And, they either buy a lot of that one thing, or a lot of things that seems like it’s the same as that. For me, it’s sweatshirts. And, I like ‘em because they’re comfortable, but they also can be super stylish. And so, like, I know that’s my cornerstone and I built things around those. It’s almost like design, right? It’s this thing of, you’re creating creating something, and you use color, you use texture, use these other things to make it come to fruition in the way you want it.

So, for me, the other thing I really pay attention to is color. I use color theory all the time. Like, the biggest recommendation I can have is pay attention to colors more than anything. If you can leverage color theory in your wardrobe, you can actually come up with really interesting combinations. Color blocking is a thing. It’s basically when you take huge blocks of color and put them on your body. So, for me, I would sometimes wear a warm or cool color shirt, like a just an all green shirt, and I’ll have a warm color pair pants, like red pants, and then I’ll wear like a neutral shoe. That kind of how I play around with things. The shoe should always be the contrast. Like, it should be the thing that either stands out, or blends in, or something in between. And, you should never match a bunch of colors together, unless you’re going to wear something really bright with it. Like for me, I’m wearing all gray right now, but my shoes are blue. That’s the only reason I would do it. I would never wear all gray with gray shoes. That’s just atrocious. You never do that. (laughs)

I actually actually have worn a gradient outfit. Like, I’ve worn a black shoes, dark gray pants, and a light gray shirt. So, I’ve done like gradients before, and I’ve played with neutrals like that.

Jp:

Oh, that sounds so cool.

Timothy:

Yeah. Color theory. I just play with colors.

Chad:

What’s a nice piece of music that has inspired you lately?

Timothy:

Hmmm. This one, I actually just texted this song to a friend of mine and it’s actually on a vinyl record that I own—Roberta Flack. And, it’s called Angelitos Negros, or Black Angels. And, it’s just a beautiful, beautiful song sung back in the, I don’t know, the 60s or 50s. It is just a really nice song. On YouTube, ‘Roberta Flack.’ It’s beautiful.

Jp:

The best food that inspires creativity.

Timothy:

Now he’s just… Now you’re just making stuff up.

All:

(laugh)

Timothy:

So, there is this great Ethiopian place called Queen Sheba, if I’m not mistaken. It’s really good Ethiopian. Then, there’s an Indian place that I can’t think of now. But, I love Indian food. Give me a samosa any day. It is the best.

Jp:

Finally, for me, digital or Analog?

Chad:

Lo-fi or Hi-fi?

Timothy:

Honestly, it’s my technology. Maybe it’s just the Millenial in me. But, the lo-fi to hi-fi thing, for me it kind is the same. Like, there is no difference between the two for me. I’ll love it as hi-fi. Even if I throw an idea onto a white board in a meeting, that’s a hi-fi, ‘cause that’s a damn good idea. You should take that.

All:

(laugh)

Chad:

The only last thing I was going to think of was favorite travel destination?

Timothy:

Mmm. Columbia. I love Medellín. It is the most beautiful mountain city. I think they call it the City of Eternal Spring. And it’s just amazing. So, yeah. I love it.

Jp:

Well Timothy, thank you so much for your time. Your apartment is amazing. This such a beautiful aesthetic that truly talks about the type of creative that you are. So, thank you for inviting us here and for being on the show.

Timothy:

Thank you.

Chad:

Thanks.